Combining Old and New Systems in Existing Buildings and Other - - PowerPoint PPT Presentation
Combining Old and New Systems in Existing Buildings and Other Retrofit Tales By Paul Jewett CFAA Technician Number 11 Combining Old and New Systems in Existing Buildings and Other Retrofit Tales Disclaimer In this presentation all the job
talking about you.
In the last 37 years I have worked with almost all the major manufactures sold in Canada at one time or another. So you can only guess.
– I want us all to talk the same language.
– Is it being done for the right reasons? A lot of the time it is not.
– This is proof that Murphy's Law is correct 99% of the time.
– “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” -George Santayana
replacement, upgrading?
that it did not have when manufactured, designed, or installed. (I got this from the Internet.)
while keeping its original design and operation.
field devices remain (except maybe the EOL’s) and the system
firmware to anything described above. Sales people like to use the term a lot because it does not have a clear a meaning.
want to replace a panel or system is, “Why?”
1. Intermittent troubles
fixed.” The real question is why is it going into trouble? Is replacing the panel going to stop it?
2. It does funny things when it goes into alarms
fire?” Sounds like a little more investigation is required.
3. Costing too much money for service
4. Want new features
5. Doing renovations and need to bring it up to code.
This style was popular in the 1960’s and early 1970’s. The GA circuit would only activate if there was a 1st stage alarm activated. In several cases I have seen the original panel replaced in the 1980’s, retaining the old wiring design.
This was very popular up to the late 1970’s and, like the last slide, you can find panels installed into the 1980’s with this style.
They worked on the principle that the 1st stage increased the current to the alarm threshold and when the GA key was turned it created a dead short and increased the current to the
a big name manufacturer doesn’t actually make all its
buys products and brand names them?
and name on the outside. Check the inside (like on PC boards and the back of the detectors) to get information. Just because a detector has a manufacturer’s name on it does not mean that it is compatible with all its panels.
panel replacement. In the tender it stated that the contractor was responsible for ensuring the panel was ULC listed with all the field devices.
lot them had been replaced over the years with what appeared to be identical models.
were brand named for a different manufacturer and that meant they were not ULC listed for the panel installed.
The detectors were worth more money than the panel.
The Scenario:
having a system replacement. Existing wire was to be reused, and the new system was from a different manufacturer – so all input devices had to be replaced.
seemed to go into alarm every couple of days at all different times for no apparent reason.
floor before the change, and wiring had been checked for capacitance and resistance between conductors .
By the process of disconnecting the circuit at different points it was determined that the problem was between the Lobby and the Rear
In all of the inspection reports found going back at least 5 years there was no detector listed in this location. Solving the problem took approximately 100 hours.
Main Lobby Annunciator
backlit design
security desk
New small outbuilding panel was added from the same manufacturer and was connected to main annunciator.
Simple interconnect, right? What could go wrong? Shortly after the new panel was installed they started to have intermittent ground faults and some mystery alarm. Funny things were happening. After a few years they replaced both systems. Too bad no one would believe me when I told them the problem was because the two systems commons were interconnected at the annunciator, causing the problems.
The most common configuration method is to have the releasing panel with just a relay interconnection to the fire alarm panel.
In this case the someone decided they did not need the local signaling because a building horn was already installed in the room.
installed in the late 1970’s had
rooms floor by floor over a period of several years.
speakers to keep up to date. Before starting, the electrical contractor asked a fire alarm tech who was in the building at the time if it was OK.
to the panel and no one consulted the manufacturer.
– The Hotel was built in the early 1970’s and the system installed consisted of a fire alarm with Bells for signaling and combined emergency paging / music / ballroom audio system. – In the early 1990’s they decided to upgrade the audio system for music and ballrooms, but do so completely destroyed the emergency paging. The provincial fire marshal’s office came for his annual inspection and wrote them up to fix or replace it.
– After a short tendering period the hotel issued a
– So when we started the project we called the local fire hall and explained what had happened and what we where doing. – We did not even make any notes of the date or who we were talking to.
telephone exchange building project in the Caribbean. Before the equipment was to be shipped I requested that I come and test the panel personally to make sure there were no problems.
tubs) it was going to be a lot of work, and was not necessary anyhow, because they pretest all the components.
up the connects.
to blow up transistors like popcorn.
connecting cables.
power to it after it was installed in the Caribbean, I’m darn sure everyone would have blamed it on me!
I got a call on a Friday afternoon at about 4:00 from a tech who I taught in class. He was doing a retrofit on an 8 story building and had a problem.
Existing Conventional System
What he was attempting to do was a retrofit from a conventional to an addressable system –in one day. PS: I know his use of isolators is questionable
His plan was working fine. He started
the system reported missing devices
wire to the addressable circuit until he exceeded the maximum capacitance for the circuit.
get one until Monday morning.
weekend and have his crew come back on Monday to finish. (maybe).